---
sheet_format: 1.0
id: 2026-03-maci-156
title: "Agents IA, OpenAPI et WASM"
title_en: "AI agents, OpenAPI and WASM"
speaker: Erwan Rougeux
with: [Horacio Gonzalez (host), Ludovic Dussart (Zatsit), Aurélien Hebert (Clever Cloud)]
date: 2026-03-10
event: "Message à caractère informatique #156"
place: "online / studio"
format: podcast
language: fr
duration: "58:12"
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM
slides: null
topics: [ai agents, small models, developer education, elasticsearch, openapi, webassembly, mesh networks, open source communities]
source: "Summary written by Claude (AI) from the local Whisper transcript, with statements attributed to Erwan by local identification of his voice only (other speakers are not identified). Not a verbatim transcript; check the recording before quoting."
review: spot-checked
review_date: 2026-10-18
---

# Agents IA, OpenAPI et WASM

**In one sentence:** A MACI episode recorded from Hanoi, where Erwan presents World Monitor, argues for constraining AI agents like parametric CAD, defends learning tech without formal studies, and praises open-source mesh networks and the Fork It community.

## TL;DR
Horacio Gonzalez hosts Ludovic Dussart (Zatsit), Aurélien Hebert (Clever Cloud database team) and Erwan Rougeux, who joins from Hanoi. Erwan opens with World Monitor, an open-source news dashboard he deployed on Clever Cloud with Claude and used to follow a conflict while his flight was being rerouted. Aurélien covers Elasticsearch 9.3 (Jina models, workflows, DiskBBQ, log streams). Ludovic presents mentoring agents for junior developers, which leads to a debate on whether newcomers still need the basics. Erwan explains the idea of his Fork It Hanoi talk: chain small specialised models and stack constraints so that probabilistic output becomes close to deterministic. Horacio reviews MiniMax M2.5, Ludovic the OpenAPI Arazzo and Overlay specifications, and the host WebAssembly in Nix functions and the peer-to-peer video tool Nevercast. Erwan ends on mesh and LoRa networks, open source as infrastructure for whole societies, and the Fork It community.

## Erwan's key points
- He presents World Monitor as a "Palantir-like" open-source dashboard with AI digests on finance, geopolitics and tech, plus a "happy" good-news flavour. He deployed it on Clever Cloud with Claude in a few minutes and used it in flight on 28 February to follow the conflict that forced his plane to detour ([03:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=185s), [04:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=274s)).
- He notes that World Monitor chains free AI token sources and falls back to a local Ollama, so it cost him nothing beyond his Clever Cloud runtimes ([05:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=343s)).
- He asks why not have Claude Code write a good Logstash pipeline, so that data arrives in Elasticsearch already parsed and usable, rather than cleaning it afterwards ([17:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1028s)).
- He prefers chaining small models, each with one narrow job (for example code maintenance and documentation), to calling one large model ([20:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1246s)).
- He summarises his Fork It Hanoi talk: stop treating AI as a junior and treat it as parametric constraints. Like a sketch in Fusion 360 where dimensions fix the part, layers of constraints guide the statistics so that any agent, or a chain of small agents, returns the same result. Juniors should learn to architect, not only to code ([21:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1291s), [22:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1375s)).
- He disagrees that beginners must first learn all the basics. He never studied computer science and learned through the internet; for him the secret with AI is to ask questions and be guided ([26:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1593s)).
- On Nevercast he asks what technology sits underneath, since some technologies (he cites Tor) are banned in some countries. He argues that the Middle East conflict shows data centres and undersea cables are strategic targets, so peer-to-peer tools, mesh and LoRa networks fill a real gap as backups ([48:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2927s), [49:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2970s)).
- He praises the "MacGyver" side of places that industry overlooks, such as Cuba or Himalayan valleys where people relay LoRa links with ESP32 boards and helium balloons. Open source is the brick on which whole societies build, "even if I sound like a weird geek hippie" ([51:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3080s), [52:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3145s)).
- He presents Fork It as a developer community about acculturation, bringing people from everywhere to talk tech, with a new initiative to teach children algorithms and critical thinking about AI from a worldwide, not only European or Parisian, viewpoint. He encourages people to answer its calls for papers and partners to sponsor it, and says Clever Cloud supports it ([53:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3209s), [55:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3339s)).

## Outline
- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=0s) Opening of episode 156, recorded on 10 March 2026.
- [01:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=68s) Introductions: Ludovic (co-CTO at Zatsit, Java and Spring, open-source contributor), Erwan (international growth at Clever Cloud, a "digital backpacker" co-building sovereign cloud abroad), Aurélien (Clever Cloud database team).
- [03:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=185s) Erwan's flight detour on 28 February and World Monitor, deployed on Clever Cloud with Claude.
- [05:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=343s) World Monitor's free-token fallback chain; another participant finds it a project that could not have existed a year ago.
- [07:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=426s) Aurélien on Elasticsearch 9.3: Jina inference models, the Elastic Inference Service, ES|QL, the DiskBBQ index.
- [10:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=646s) Workflows in technical preview, "chat with your data", and the risk of AI usage bills nobody controls.
- [14:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=898s) Another layer of abstraction over MCP? Logs, streams and auto-discovery of log formats.
- [17:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1028s) Erwan: why not parse logs upstream with a Logstash pipeline written by Claude Code? The reply: centralised processing allows new uses later.
- [19:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1157s) Jina embedding models from 239 million to 14 billion parameters; small models on a phone.
- [20:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1246s) Erwan on chaining small models and on parametric constraints, the theme of his Fork It Hanoi talk.
- [23:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1398s) Ludovic on mentoring agents that guide juniors instead of writing their code (AXA as an example).
- [24:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1462s) Another participant's students: a former translator thrives with agents, others feel asked to be architects too soon.
- [26:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1593s) Erwan: you can learn without the basics if you ask questions. The reply: the four stages of competence and a general geek culture that tells you which questions to ask.
- [29:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1789s) The word "simple" in a spec produced a 25-folder app: ambiguity between people and models.
- [32:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1961s) Soft skills become core skills.
- [33:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1983s) Horacio on MiniMax M2.5: open weights, about 200 billion parameters with under 10% active per request, close to Claude from a few months earlier, plugged into Claude Code.
- [37:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2224s) Ludovic on Arazzo, the OpenAPI specification for API workflows, seen at API Days.
- [40:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2425s) The Overlay specification: patching out-of-date OpenAPI specs or publishing a business view of a technical API.
- [43:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2604s) The host on WebAssembly inside Nix functions.
- [46:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2775s) Nevercast, account-free peer-to-peer video calls; Ludovic links it to Zatsit's green-IT approach.
- [48:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2927s) Erwan on banned technologies, attacked data centres and cables, and mesh/LoRa backup networks. Nevercast uses WebRTC, DTLS and a TURN server.
- [51:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3080s) Erwan on resourceful communities, LoRa over the Himalayas and open source as the base of societies.
- [53:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3209s) Erwan on Fork It, its children's initiative, calls for papers and sponsors; events in Tunisia, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok.
- [56:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3404s) Ludovic's closing track: OrelSan, "Basique".

## Notable quotes
> "Je l'ai senti comme un Palantir like." — Erwan Rougeux, [03:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=237s)
*"It felt to me like something Palantir-like."*

> "Moi je n'ai jamais fait d'études en informatique, ça n'a toujours été qu'une passion, et je l'ai appris grâce à internet." — Erwan Rougeux, [26:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1593s)
*"I never studied computer science; it has always been a passion, and I learned it thanks to the internet."*

> "L'open source, c'est ce qui fait tourner la boutique et ce qui fera tourner la boutique demain." — Erwan Rougeux, [52:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3145s)
*"Open source is what keeps the shop running, and what will keep it running tomorrow."*

> "Il n'y a pas de mauvais CFP, il n'y a jamais de mauvaise présentation." — Erwan Rougeux, [54:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3296s)
*"There's no bad CFP, there's never a bad talk."*

## Questions this answers
**Q: What is World Monitor and how did Erwan Rougeux use it?**
A: An open-source dashboard aggregating finance, geopolitics and tech news with AI digests. Erwan deployed it on Clever Cloud with Claude in minutes and used it to follow events during a rerouted flight. See [03:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=185s).

**Q: How does Erwan Rougeux think AI coding agents should be guided?**
A: Like parametric CAD: stack constraints until the probabilistic output is close to deterministic, and chain small specialised models rather than relying on one big one. See [21:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1291s).

**Q: Do junior developers still need to learn the basics in the age of AI?**
A: Erwan says not necessarily: he learned without formal studies and believes asking good questions is the key. Another participant answers that you need enough culture to know which questions to ask. See [26:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=1593s).

**Q: What is new in Elasticsearch 9.3?**
A: Aurélien cites native Jina inference models, workflows in technical preview, progress on ES|QL, the DiskBBQ index used by default and log streams with format auto-discovery. See [07:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=448s).

**Q: What are the OpenAPI Arazzo and Overlay specifications?**
A: Arazzo describes sequences of API calls as workflows; Overlay patches an existing OpenAPI document, for example to fix an out-of-date spec. See [37:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2224s) and [40:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2425s).

**Q: Why does Erwan Rougeux care about mesh and LoRa networks?**
A: Because data centres and undersea cables have become targets in conflicts, and communities he meets abroad already build cheap LoRa links with open-source tools. See [49:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=2970s) and [51:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3101s).

**Q: What is Fork It?**
A: A developer community that gathers people from around the world to talk tech, with events in Hanoi, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok and soon Tunisia. Erwan spoke at its Hanoi event, and Clever Cloud supports it. See [53:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b32Epy1WWM&t=3209s).

## Mentioned
Clever Cloud, Zatsit, World Monitor, Palantir, Claude, Claude Code, Ollama, Air France, Elasticsearch, Elastic Inference Service, Jina, ES|QL, DiskBBQ, HNSW, Logstash, MCP, Fusion 360, AXA, MiniMax M2.5, DeepSeek, ChatGPT, Gemini, OpenAPI, Arazzo, Overlay, API Days, JSONPath, Nix, Fedora, WebAssembly, Nevercast, WebRTC, DTLS, TURN, LiveKit, Tor, LoRa, ESP32, Cuba, Himalaya, Fork It, Hanoi, Vietnam, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Tunisia, OrelSan